comp photos
339) No People
06/08/08
Dear Henry,
On 5/13/08 you answered a questions about including and/or deleting a person or personal photo from an appraisal, and intimated that there is no regulation requiring same. Yet most of my clients have two strict rules: "No people in subject or comp photos" and "No identifiable people in pictures on walls in interior photos." This has been extended by some to mean personal items of an ethnic or racial origin such as tribal masks, native american art-work, etc. Their contention is that the appraisal cannot have anything that would lead the reader to know the race, etc., of the borrower. It seems pretty silly to me, when often their name gives away the game, but those are the rules promulgated by many of my clients. Do you think it is illegal?
Robert Godwin rcgodwin2@appraise.gccoxmail.com
Dear Robert,
As part of the scope of work negotiation with the client, which is required by the USPAP, it is not unreasonable that the client request pictures without people in them. I think it is a little extreme to apply this to personal property too, but I doubt it is illegal.
H2
On 5/13/08 you answered a questions about including and/or deleting a person or personal photo from an appraisal, and intimated that there is no regulation requiring same. Yet most of my clients have two strict rules: "No people in subject or comp photos" and "No identifiable people in pictures on walls in interior photos." This has been extended by some to mean personal items of an ethnic or racial origin such as tribal masks, native american art-work, etc. Their contention is that the appraisal cannot have anything that would lead the reader to know the race, etc., of the borrower. It seems pretty silly to me, when often their name gives away the game, but those are the rules promulgated by many of my clients. Do you think it is illegal?
Robert Godwin rcgodwin2@appraise.gccoxmail.com
Dear Robert,
As part of the scope of work negotiation with the client, which is required by the USPAP, it is not unreasonable that the client request pictures without people in them. I think it is a little extreme to apply this to personal property too, but I doubt it is illegal.
H2
317) Personal Photos
05/13/08
Hi Henry,
In a recent appraisal seminar, there was a question about difficulty regarding photographs of people when taking interior photos. Removing pictures from the wall in someone’s living room can be a sticky wicket. I suggested using a photo editor to just cut the center of the wall photos out. The instructor said it was altering the photos. Therefore, it was not allowed.
Am I missing something? I sent an interior photo with an appraisal one time. It had a photo on the wall depicting a person that I didn’t notice. The reviewer returned the appraisal report for correction. I cut the center of the photograph out (with the image) leaving the picture frame. Then I resent the report. The underwriter reviewer said that would be fine and accepted the report.
What do you think?
NWBR
Dear Friend,
I do not think that what you've learned about photographs is correct. It is true you cannot take a picture of a person and then sell it for commercial purposes. I doubt that applies to someone who happens to be in one of your appraisal photos, or (as in this case) in a picture on the wall, and who is not even identified.
As far as not taking a photo of a picture on someone's wall — frankly, that sounds pretty far out to me. Did you get any written material that contains the source of this "requirement"?
H2
In a recent appraisal seminar, there was a question about difficulty regarding photographs of people when taking interior photos. Removing pictures from the wall in someone’s living room can be a sticky wicket. I suggested using a photo editor to just cut the center of the wall photos out. The instructor said it was altering the photos. Therefore, it was not allowed.
Am I missing something? I sent an interior photo with an appraisal one time. It had a photo on the wall depicting a person that I didn’t notice. The reviewer returned the appraisal report for correction. I cut the center of the photograph out (with the image) leaving the picture frame. Then I resent the report. The underwriter reviewer said that would be fine and accepted the report.
What do you think?
NWBR
Dear Friend,
I do not think that what you've learned about photographs is correct. It is true you cannot take a picture of a person and then sell it for commercial purposes. I doubt that applies to someone who happens to be in one of your appraisal photos, or (as in this case) in a picture on the wall, and who is not even identified.
As far as not taking a photo of a picture on someone's wall — frankly, that sounds pretty far out to me. Did you get any written material that contains the source of this "requirement"?
H2
287) Comp Photo from MLS
03/31/08
Dear H2,
I just read you comment about using MLS pictures when you can't get into a gated community to take photos of a comparable. In our area, they are copyrighting their photos in MLS -- so now what do you do?
I'm assuming these are registered copyright photos since you probably have to send them in with a fee like appraisals to register them.
Dave Hanson hansondb@charter.net
Dear Dave,
I am not an expert in copyright law. You need to get an opinion from a lawyer as to whether pictures in an MLS Book have a valid copyright.
H2
I just read you comment about using MLS pictures when you can't get into a gated community to take photos of a comparable. In our area, they are copyrighting their photos in MLS -- so now what do you do?
I'm assuming these are registered copyright photos since you probably have to send them in with a fee like appraisals to register them.
Dave Hanson hansondb@charter.net
Dear Dave,
I am not an expert in copyright law. You need to get an opinion from a lawyer as to whether pictures in an MLS Book have a valid copyright.
H2
244) MLS Photos
02/15/08
Henry, great website!
I visit often to read about new issues and reread older questions.
I was just reading Question #28 about photos of comps, etc. In the answer you stated that Fannie requires the appraiser to photograph the comps to be used in the appraisal report. In the Tampa Bay area of FL there are a ton of "gated" areas within some communities. Let's say for the most part that they are comparable properties. If a comp is in a different "gated" area than the subject and you can't gain entry to that area, what is one to do?
What I've done (and I hope it is correct) is if an MLS photo is available I use that MLS photo and state that entry was not possible due to the gate being closed and indicate adjacent to the photo that it is a MLS photo.
What do you think? Thanks,
David Bramuchi david@bramuchiappraisals.com
Dear David,
Fannie Mae does permit the use of photographs from MLS systems.
H2
I visit often to read about new issues and reread older questions.
I was just reading Question #28 about photos of comps, etc. In the answer you stated that Fannie requires the appraiser to photograph the comps to be used in the appraisal report. In the Tampa Bay area of FL there are a ton of "gated" areas within some communities. Let's say for the most part that they are comparable properties. If a comp is in a different "gated" area than the subject and you can't gain entry to that area, what is one to do?
What I've done (and I hope it is correct) is if an MLS photo is available I use that MLS photo and state that entry was not possible due to the gate being closed and indicate adjacent to the photo that it is a MLS photo.
What do you think? Thanks,
David Bramuchi david@bramuchiappraisals.com
Dear David,
Fannie Mae does permit the use of photographs from MLS systems.
H2
49) Photographing Comparable Sales
02/12/07
Dear Henry,
In California, what legal rights may we rely on when photographing comparable properties and including these photographs in our appraisals?
I feel I am invading the privacy of homeowners when I photograph their homes and publish these photographs in my work product. Without these photos, however, I couldn't do my job. What legal rights do I have photographing their homes for my use and the use of my clients?
Alex Hale alexhaleappraisals@gmail.com
Dear Alex,
I am not a lawyer, much less a California lawyer so what I am giving you is not a legal opinion.
Nationally, it is well established that one can photograph houses from the street and use the resulting pictures in real estate appraisals. As a matter of practically, some appraisers use magnetic signs on their cars, so people will know what they are doing.
I know appraisers who have obtained a letter from the police captain of their community to use when the police or residents challenge what they are doing taking pictures in the neighborhood.
Keep in mind, however, that you cannot trespass on private property to get your pictures.
H2
In California, what legal rights may we rely on when photographing comparable properties and including these photographs in our appraisals?
I feel I am invading the privacy of homeowners when I photograph their homes and publish these photographs in my work product. Without these photos, however, I couldn't do my job. What legal rights do I have photographing their homes for my use and the use of my clients?
Alex Hale alexhaleappraisals@gmail.com
Dear Alex,
I am not a lawyer, much less a California lawyer so what I am giving you is not a legal opinion.
Nationally, it is well established that one can photograph houses from the street and use the resulting pictures in real estate appraisals. As a matter of practically, some appraisers use magnetic signs on their cars, so people will know what they are doing.
I know appraisers who have obtained a letter from the police captain of their community to use when the police or residents challenge what they are doing taking pictures in the neighborhood.
Keep in mind, however, that you cannot trespass on private property to get your pictures.
H2
28) Comparable Sales Inspections & Photos
12/14/06
Hi Henry,
Thanks so much for all the great information on your website; it has been extremely helpful to me.
My question is what are the USPAP standards in regards to inspecting the comparables sales used in a report and taking comparable sales photos.
Could you clarify this?
Thanks!
Terri Patton terripatton@charter.net
Dear Terri,
I am not aware of any USPAP requirements for inspecting and photographing comparable sales. USPAP does require that you certify whether you did or did not inspect the subject property. Fannie Mae does have a requirement that you inspect and photograph the exteriors of the comparable sales.
The standing joke is that this requirement is like the Hilton "H" in all their sand ashtrays -- it simply makes sure that you (or someone from your office with a camera) actually drives by the comps!
H2
Thanks so much for all the great information on your website; it has been extremely helpful to me.
My question is what are the USPAP standards in regards to inspecting the comparables sales used in a report and taking comparable sales photos.
Could you clarify this?
Thanks!
Terri Patton terripatton@charter.net
Dear Terri,
I am not aware of any USPAP requirements for inspecting and photographing comparable sales. USPAP does require that you certify whether you did or did not inspect the subject property. Fannie Mae does have a requirement that you inspect and photograph the exteriors of the comparable sales.
The standing joke is that this requirement is like the Hilton "H" in all their sand ashtrays -- it simply makes sure that you (or someone from your office with a camera) actually drives by the comps!
H2